Sourdough Pain de mie

TeckPoh's picture

Spotted a Pain de Mie recipe over at an eG thread and thought it would be interesting to convert it to sourdough. I halved the recipe to make a roughly 500g loaf. The bread was delicious, nice mix of sweet/sour, soft crumb. The crust was so thin and crispy, that my finger accidentally broke a surface when I was taking it out of the tin. The crust was no longer crispy this morning. My family, not being fans of crusts, LOVED the bread.

1T starter
100g bread flour
100g water
This puffed up to 4 times its volume in 7 hrs.

The Dough

Ingredient Metric Imperial Baker's Percentage
Milk 250 grams 8.83 oz 62.50%
Bread flour 200 grams 7.06 oz 50.00%
Plain flour 200 grams 7.06 oz 50.00%
Melted unsalted butter 50 grams 1.77 oz 12.50%
Celtic salt 10 grams 0.35 oz 2.50%
Sugar 25 grams 0.88 oz 6.25%
Total Flour Weight:
400 grams

Percentages are relative to flour weight (flour equals 100%) and every other ingredient is a percentage of this. Flour from the starter is not counted. This recipe was originally in grams and has been automatically converted to other measures.


3 short kneads/rests within 30 mins

2 fold/turns within 2 hrs
Shape and into the fridge for half an hour

Oven 230 C for 15 mins, 190 C for 30 mins.

Would like some input from you bread sages:

1. The original recipe (I'm halving it) called for: 350g milk, 500g flour. I made the preferment with 100g flour and 100g water. Should I stick to water in future or is it feasible to use milk to keep true to the recipe?


348 users have voted.


TeckPoh's picture
TeckPoh 2007 April 13

Hubby bought some 'kaya' (egg custard jam flavoured with pandan leaves) which was calling for a plain milk loaf. So, I made this bread again...880g. As before, this bread went down very well with da family.

I didn't remember slashing last year. But this time, there was a burst on the top right as can be seen in the pic. Question for those who bake in you slash your breads?


SourDom 2007 April 13


what a lovely looking loaf. I had forgotten, or missed your original post, but it is exactly the sort of thing that the little mouths in my house would love. I will make some tomorrow.

a couple of questions, and answers.

Why did you put the dough in the fridge for 1/2 hour?
Have I misunderstood - is that the only proving time that you used? I would have expected to need at least a couple of hours of proving - or to put the dough in the fridge for at least 6 hours, if you were going to do it that way.

It is possible to make a sourdough sponge with milk. At least I am pretty sure that I have done this with soy milk (I don't bake with milk) when making a version of Carol Field's Pane di Como. I worried at the time about leaving milk out on the bench, but I guess the sourdough beasties scared off anything else.
Might have to try again to be sure.

The question about flours is an interesting one.
Here I have looked around, but all of the 'plain flours' in the supermarket are ~11g protein. That is very similar to the unbleached plain baking flour that you and I use (Kialla). I suspect that in other parts of the world it is possible to get plain flour which has a lower protein level ~9g, as well as 'strong' flour with higher protein 13-14g.
But there is more to flours than just the protein level, and there may be some benefit to blending the more refined plain flour with the unbleached plain flour.

No I don't slash tin loaves, but I don't bake in a tin very often.
And I often have a split along the side...


TeckPoh's picture
TeckPoh 2007 April 13

:D :D :D

Looking back at my sourdough infancy stage really shows me up as truly bumbling/fumbling. I think I popped the bread into the fridge because it was an extra hot day. And from the clever chembake analysis, the bread was indeed underproved. Half an hour??? Another glaring mistake I saw earlier today when I posted, was the weight of the bread. How could I have said it was around 500g loaf? ROFL. This latest loaf weighed 880g. This time, I bulkfermented as before (2hrs plus 30 mins short kneads), then shaped, and proved for 2 hours room temp 30 deg C.

I wrote to the Kialla people 2 days reply yet. But, I've used the same flour to make anzacs and it was very good.

I must try using soy milk one day.

Remember to snap your loaf, Dom. Hubby ate 3 pieces (!) this morning....and he hardly ever eats breakfast. And I've never seen my girls eat bread so fast.

SourDom 2007 April 13

Will do,

I always think of loaves in terms of the weight of flour, so I didn't notice the discrepancy.
A "500g" loaf for me means 500g of flour - which your loaf contains. (500g flour makes a nice size loaf).


chembake 2006 May 3

Hi Teck poh,
that bread looks satisfactory to me.The crumb is good for a sourdough tinned bread as its expected to be slightly open but not if the bread is made with bakers yeast where its expected to be even.

But...the  compressed sides of the bread indicates that it needs more proofing time so  it can possibly expand a little bit more. Or you need to slightly reduce the weight of the dough?

Anyway if your folks eat it heartily who cares if the bread is not perfect? 8)

I am sure  for an Asian palate  that bread is eaten with gusto... 8)

It does not matter if the crust is crispy or thick and even if the bread is baked with lots of steamm the oriental eaters want the crust that will be soft to bite and the addition of sufficient fat  will ensure that.. 8)

TeckPoh's picture
TeckPoh 2007 April 13

Oh yeah. That must be it. Don't know why I started to pick my original post apart. Ever since I got my digital scale fm Melbourne, I've been finding excuse to weigh everything. Love it, not only because it says 'hi' to me each time I switch it on.

TeckPoh's picture
TeckPoh 2006 May 3

Thanks, Bill, as always, you're too kind.

Chembake, I was actually wondering about the compressed sides...tks for pointing that out. I'm a bit paranoid about over-proving. Much tks. Could you explain the bit about reducing the weight of the dough? No comprehende.

Yyyyyuppp! You know Asian palates too well. I'm one of the rare ones who like crusts and bite to my breads.

SourDom 2007 April 14

Here it is TP


I adjusted your recipe to the 125% starter that I had ready, and increased the quantities a little. I used golden syrup instead of sugar, and only afterwards realised that this recipe is very like Dan Lepard's Milk Loaf (of which I have made a sourdough version once or twice)

I kind of like the whorled bubble appearance of the top, though it is a bit unconventional (comes of an overnight prove in the fridge). Mine split along the side too...


chembake 2006 May 4

Chembake, I was actually wondering about the compressed sides...tks for pointing that out. I'm a bit paranoid about over-proving. Much tks. Could you explain the bit about reducing the weight of the dough? No comprehende.

Whoa.... Spanistch.....Spinach ..Spamwich...Spanish.? :D
I have difficuly pronouncing that language :D

I will try if I can still remember how to speak it...Hmmn? :)

Dispensa mi por favor... 8)

No need to worry about paranoia.... sounds perfectly normal to me.... :)

regarding you question
That might bit a technical issue to you
Compressed sides is a bread fault attributed to bigger dough weight to the size of the pan used.
This result in a loaf that looks prematurely proofed and needs more rise. A proper dough to pan ratio will likely does not have the fault..

In the bakery the remedy is to cut down the dough weight gradually until the sides does not come out..
But the best way is to calculate the pan volume and divide that by the dough weight. Basing from the numbers we can deduce the proper dough weight for the given pan volume... 8)
But its works best with bakers yeast leavened bread and not much with traditional sourdoughs :(

You can try those ideas doing it if you want ,,,, but not a big deal, as you are not baking for some bread exhibition but for your own consumption... 8)

TeckPoh's picture
TeckPoh 2007 April 14

I love your crust! And, your crumb is more open. I've made Dan's too (also tried sourdoughing it) and, yes, it's quite similar. More milk and less butter than this.


TeckPoh's picture
TeckPoh 2006 May 5

Muchas gracias, chembake. I think I understand this time, even if it's not fully in

TeckPoh's picture
TeckPoh 2009 July 29

I picked up a multigrain bread mix at an organic outlet. As most things here, the labelling is really lacking in information, like, what goes into the mix?? Used the above pain de mie formula to come up with a similarly soft bread with thin crust. Not bad, but, I'm missing the satisfaction of knowing exactly what goes into my bread. Sigh.

glennbronllys's picture
glennbronllys 2009 November 28

Thank you for this recipe, I have made it several times now and my three young children love it.  I'm like you I and prefer a chewy crust on my bread.  The last time I made it I substituted the sugar for a table spoon of  some local runny honey (sorry forgot weigh it) and I think it made it even more scrumptious in the kids eyes.


dimitry1 2010 January 28

I'm planing to bake some bread on friday in my WFO and was wondering how is this dough, is it verry wet, would I be able to transfer it to my WFO on a peel, or should I make it in a form?

dimitry1 2010 January 28

I'm planing to bake some bread on friday in my WFO and was wondering how is this dough, is it verry wet, would I be able to transfer it to my WFO on a peel, or should I make it in a form?

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