The Baguette Bake-off

Jeremy's picture
Jeremy

Why not lets do a contest!

  • 350g size or 60 g petite bags
  • 270 flour (type 55 if you got it)
  • 45 grams corn flour (fine mill)
  • 2gram yeast (optional if you think your levain is forte!)
  • 5grams salt
  • 40 pre-fermented dough or if you like adjust this mess to a levain baguette, we retarded the shaped breads over night 12 hours!

happy baking if your sad, well get to the oven and jump in!Jeremy

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carla's picture
carla 2006 October 19

Well you could always say something rude about my attempt at fame.
I think the pics are on page 2 ??

These are 100% wholemeal freshly milled durum baguettes - free range - ahem - free baked - no such thing as a stainless or otherwise half-round helpful tin...

TeckPoh's picture
TeckPoh 2006 October 19

Pix are on Page One. Looks like a yummy bread, Carla. Only other comment is your slashes are quite unconventional for a baguette. Germanic-style?

SourYumMum's picture
SourYumMum 2006 October 19

Funny thing about Fosters beers.

Whilst it might be Australian, no self-respecting Aussie would drink it!

But hey, if you like it, go right ahead and I'll buy some shares!

Bill44's picture
Bill44 2006 October 19

[quote="SourYumMum"]
Funny thing about Fosters beers.

Whilst it might be Australian, no self-respecting Aussie would drink it!

But hey, if you like it, go right ahead and I'll buy some shares!

[/quote]
You took the words out of my mouth Carol, I only refrained from posting so as not to upset Jeremy.

TeckPoh's picture
TeckPoh 2006 December 1

Anybody's better off than me where flours are concerned and good chocolate and nice dried fruit........and list goes on forever.

Yes! Yes! I've finally got my barley grains. A-sprouting I shall go...

bianchifan's picture
bianchifan 2006 October 19

[quote="Jeremy"]
..where is the rest of the gang? Bill? Carol? Markus?
[/quote]
hey you people, are you crazy?
Staying in France, I love to eat real fine baguette, but here at home I prefer all kinds of "Schwarzbrot"

In honesty, I tried to bake baguettes only one time, in march this year, after making malt by maself cause my supermarket doesn't wanna offer further more

T65 is available for me, but only in quite tiny paper bags a' 25 kg at about 50 Eur , so I baked it from spelt with 10% dark rye flour and some wholewheat.
It tastes rough and much too sour although I took a spelty starter.
It don't know what it was, perhaps a [url=http://de.geocities.com/bian_chi_fan/PICT1216.JPG]plumbutteredpumking[/url] or anything else but never, absolutly never any kind of baguette.

One day I'll have second try.

SourYumMum's picture
SourYumMum 2006 October 19

Bill, we are lucky as my hubby's uncle over at Rathmines has a 'beer shed' and makes fine, fine homebrew. Now I know that people say unkind things about homebrew and other people's farts ... but Parko's homebrew really is fabulous. He approaches it like some of you very fine sourdough bakers approach your bread ... all measured and timed and very specific.

And it is very good!

TeckPoh's picture
TeckPoh 2006 October 19

[quote="bianchifan"]
[color=darkred]One day[/color] I'll have second try.
[/quote]

Make that one day TODAY! or...weekend's approaching...

bethesdabakers's picture
bethesdabakers 2006 November 3

I might have started slow but:

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/bethesdabakers/baguettep.jpg[/img]

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/bethesdabakers/baguettep-1.jpg[/img]

These are yeasted baguettes using an overnight sponge - Paul Merry recipe.

Mick

bethesdabakers's picture
bethesdabakers 2006 November 3

Well to be honest, old thing, I can't do sourdough with the lads because we don't have the hours so I've been teaching them about sponges, poolish and bigas. Today we had three doughs on the go (not counting the pizza and soda bread) a rye/raisin, ciabatta and the baguettes, and a quick Swedish Rye in the oven. There was nothing to do for a while so I told the guys they could wander off for half an hour before things needed to be done. After thirty minutes I took the rye out of the oven, after forty minutes I scaled the baguettes, after 50 minutes I shaped the ciabatta, after an hour I shaped the baguettes, after an hour and ten minutes I formed loaves with the rye/raisin and dropped them in the tins. When the guys finally showed I told them to piss off home because there was nothing to do but bake off.

Had to go round the village giving bread away.

That's my excuse anyway.

Mick

Jeremy's picture
Jeremy 2006 October 19

Guy's Bill Carol, I didn't know that you were going to trod on me toes!
The bitters is decent I think? Let me tell you though 3 years in Southern Germany trained me for good or the best beer!
New forum page, beer! And liquids!

Jeremy

TeckPoh's picture
TeckPoh 2006 November 3

Are baguettes traditionally NON-sourdough? Jeffrey H's bags (at least in his book) also uses baker's yeast.

Lovely breads, Mick. The village must be very happy (and well-fed) with your baking presence.

SourDom 2006 October 19

Here are today's baguettes

[img]http://sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/4891-1/DSCN1500.JPG[/img]

This was Dan Lepard's white leaven formula adjusted to my starter which is 100% hydration rather than 80%

So for 2 baguettes

100g starter (40%)
153g water (61%)
5g ground malt (2%)
250g flour (100%)(Kialla unbleached white 11.8g protein)
5g salt (2%)

~68% hydration

Slashes are a bit better, though my stanley knife is nearing the end of its lameness

The baguettes still split at the base which is a bit disappointing (any suggestions?)

[img]http://sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/4893-1/DSCN1501.JPG[/img]

Crumb

[img]http://sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/4897-1/DSCN1506.JPG[/img]

the texture is pleasantly open - similar to my experience with the white leaven loaves

for interest, the skinny little loaves next to the cut baguette are some sourdough wholemeal grissini that I also made this morning. Now the texture of them is getting close to what I was after with the baguette, so perhaps I will try that recipe and make some baguettes with it.
(The original recipe uses lard - which I don't believe in, so substituted vegetable shortening. Not sure if I should perhaps have softened or melted it, but the dough ended up with little 'copha' lumps. Not discernible in the bread though. What would others have done?)

grissini

[img]http://sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/4895-1/DSCN1502.JPG[/img]

(thanks for your vote of confidence TP. Mostly it has to do with planning ahead)

If I have time I will try the DL formula again tomorrow with some plain flour (10.8g protein), and see if there is any detectable difference.

Dom

carla's picture
carla 2006 November 3

[quote="TeckPoh"]
Are baguettes traditionally NON-sourdough? Jeffrey H's bags (at least in his book) also uses baker's yeast.
[/quote]

TP NOTHING is TRADITIONALLY baked with yeast.
Bakers yeast (the selcted strain we can buy in the supermarket today) has only been around for about 100 years and has really only taken off in commercial bakeries after WWII, so hardly a "tradition". It mainly took off because it is faster to bake with, and today the commercial bakeries have it down to a fine art (if you can call the result fine is some other matter) to bake "turbo breads".

Originally all leavened bread was leavened with some kind of "old dough" some of which may have been more "yeasty" than others, but sourdough all the same.
The ones with more yeast than acid also died out quicker, as they succumb to mold and other undesirable bacteria much easier.
Lactic acid is a quite good preservative on its own. In the old days it was used to rub off the moulds on cheese and salamis and to prevent re-occurence (at least for a while).

So there you are - history lesson off.

Jeremy's picture
Jeremy 2006 October 19

Hi Dom!
All that time on your hands good show! Have to try to entice more folks to partake in the baguette contest!
Looking good Dom, gonna give a go at some this weekend, if the wife lets me!
Did you use tins? I've had that split too sometimes happens when your not checking the seam is down or also underproofing? You could get wilkonson blades and fix a metal stick into it so the blade would bend a bit or get a "Sweeny Todd" from Bill!

Ta!
Jeremy

TeckPoh's picture
TeckPoh 2006 November 3

Thanks, Carla, for the bit of history. I am aware of that part.

I guess I meant 'post-modern yeast', rather than 'traditionally'.

bethesdabakers's picture
bethesdabakers 2006 November 3

Dear Carla,

You might be right in principal but not totally right when it comes to the baguette. To quote Raymond Calvel,

[quote]
The baguette has become a rather hackneyed symbol of French life but it does not have a long history. Following the first world war the technology was at last in place to produce light and delicately flavoured loaves with a crispy crust. Mixing machines, stronger flours, yeast-based recipes, steam injection ovens ect. all contributed to this.
[/quote]

The vast majority of French baguettes are yeasted and always have been. In response to the "return of good bread" movement some French bakers are now producing speciality baguettes using better flours and containing some levain which they call, ironically, [i]baguettes de tradition[/i] - and, of course, they charge more for them.

Best wishes,

Mick

carla's picture
carla 2006 November 3

[quote="bethesdabakers"]
Dear Carla, You might be right in principal but not totally right when it comes to the baguette.
The vast majority of French baguettes are yeasted [b]and always have been.[/b]
[/quote]

Hi Mick,
that would mean that 100 years ago there was no baguette at all?
As there was no bakers yeast then!

Has anybody any history on that?
Now that is intriguing me totally!

bethesdabakers's picture
bethesdabakers 2006 November 3

[quote]
In the euphoria of the ?20s the French were to see the triumph of a delicious form of bread which was to ensure a worldwide reputation for French baking. This type of bread was the product of a new, so called ?direct? method of fermentation, which consisted of incorporating the yeast straight into the dough just before kneading. Less sour than leaven bread, easier to prepare than a dough with poolish, what was initially termed pain de fantasie (fancy bread) was first made by city bakers. It rapidly seduced customers with its thin, crunchy crust, its light and spongy cream coloured crumb and its pleasant, wheaty taste. Bakers made them into long loaves of various sizes, which gradually came to be known by the names we still use today: baguette (stick), the shorter batard and thinner ficelle (string).
[/quote]

The Book of Bread - Jerome Assire

Normbake 2006 October 19

I drink Fosters Light ice Beer I think it's pretty good..
Certianly some good looking breads here love a good bagette with tomatoe and cheese.
Normbake

TeckPoh's picture
TeckPoh 2006 November 4

One learns something new every day I never knew Bread was such a wide subject until this year.

Tks, Mick.

bethesdabakers's picture
bethesdabakers 2006 November 4

Well, I blame that Jeremy. When he started this contest he didn't define what a baguette is. A French baguette couldn't be any more different from something like the recipe I posted last year [url]http://www.sourdough.com.au/forum//viewtopic.php?p=173#173[/url]. So where was the level playing field?

That's the trouble with these impetuous Americans.

(What IS occurring in Oz next year Jeremy? No good just hinting. Will my bus pass get me there?)

Best wishes,

Mick

Pab's picture
Pab 2006 November 4

The taste and texture of baguettes in France varies hugely from bakery to bakery, restaurant to restaurant.
I hope I am not repeating the obvious (I've not been following this thread until recently) but the baguette bit is the shape. If one shaped it accordingly you could make a baguette out of 'Mother's Pride' dough. Mind you, I bet some of the additives would be illegal in France.
I still get pleasure from the startlingly light baguettes that are served in some of the less grand restaurants. These are a long way from the deeply flavoured and highly crisp crust of a lot of the baguettes I would buy for preference.
If a baguette was to be naturally leavened it would normally be sold as such to inform the customer - 'Baguette au Levain', but would not, I believe, have to be. Don't forget that French food and wine laws can be very strict.
I have spent a fair amount of time in South East France towards the Alps (think of the area from just east of Lyon to Geneva and you are in a hugely varied culinary paradise) and you see a lot of sourdough around there but it is usually boule.
Just a few thoughts to share with you. I don't often shape baguettes, but I will have a bash and post a photo.
Best wishes
Pab

carla's picture
carla 2006 November 4

Interesting reading about the history of baguettes.

I am still hoping Renaud will chime in here one day - maybe even with a photo and a recipe!

TeckPoh's picture
TeckPoh 2006 October 19

Dom...your baguettes look good enough...but those next to it are what I'd aim for too. Hmm...if you can find time to make more baguettes, so shall I. Will go refresh some starter. Can't find ground malt here though. OK, OK, no more playing with cake and rice flour. I'm going to be real serious this time.

TeckPoh's picture
TeckPoh 2006 November 4

[quote="bethesdabakers"]
(What IS occurring in Oz next year Jeremy? No good just hinting. Will my bus pass get me there?)

Mick
[/quote]

Well...I am NOT Jeremy (phew!!!), but I'll link you to [url=http://www.sourdough.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=488&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0]where bread angels fear to tread[/url].

Mick, you have to try harder to 'listen' when Jeremy speaks. He has been sounding that he's going to Vermont this weekend to unravel the secrets of Hamelman's breads. And, so, we'll be getting some peace and quiet for 3...no, counting down...2 plus more days.

bethesdabakers's picture
bethesdabakers 2006 November 4

I thought it was nice and quiet - won't last when the boy gets back to New York.

Thanks, TP. It's been a very odd few months and I just haven't had time to keep up with the forum. Hope that is changing.

Best wishes,

Mick

carla's picture
carla 2006 November 4

[quote="bethesdabakers"]
Thanks, TP. It's been a very odd few months and I just haven't had time to keep up with the forum. Hope that is changing.
[/quote]

I hope too Mick that we will see more of you in here - one needs a break from these boy-racers

Have we agreed now that baguettes are not older than 100 years? And before there were sourdough boules?

SourDom 2006 November 4

this thread just keeps getting more interesting.

diversions on the history of sourdough and baguettes, microbiology and acetic vs lactic acid...

welcome pab - I look forward to seeing your version!

cheers
Dom

Jeremy's picture
Jeremy 2006 November 6

[quote]
Well...I am NOT Jeremy (phew!!!), but I'll link you to [url=http://www.sourdough.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=488&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0]where bread angels fear to tread[/url].

Mick, you have to try harder to 'listen' when Jeremy speaks. He has been sounding that he's going to Vermont this weekend to unravel the secrets of Hamelman's breads. And, so, we'll be getting some peace and quiet for 3...no, counting down...2 plus more days.
[/quote]

TP?
Yes I am back, with video, bread, formulas and well more knowledge!As far as phew is that a smell or additude?
As for the baguette, Mr. Hamelman said it's silly to really expect a perfect baguette without yeast, yes yeast! Purists we are but we sometimes need a bit of that stuff!

Jeremy
P.S. Just unpacking, maybe will give you all an extra 3 day break?

carla's picture
carla 2006 October 20

[quote="bianchifan"]
It tastes rough and much too sour although I took a spelty starter.
[/quote]

Just a quick question here:
Is "spelt" what Germans call "Dinkel"??

carla's picture
carla 2006 October 20

[quote="TeckPoh"]
Only other comment is your slashes are quite unconventional for a baguette. Germanic-style?
[/quote]

No - I don't think these slashes are Germanic
I had no idea how to slash this at all - it was my first attempt at baguette - was baked about 6 months ago (this was actually the "noodle soup" bianchifan referred to in another thread).

It was supposed to be a pre-ferment and I was going to make the dough the next morning.
As it turned out that I had no time to bake all day, I decided to just bake the pre-ferment as baguettes for dinner and fry some steaks and make a quick salad, as I was running out of energy to cook properly.

And this was the result, convinving me that you can bake a pre-ferment. You just rename it "retarded dough" and you are right

donyeokl's picture
donyeokl 2006 October 20

Hi Carla,

[code]just a quick question here:
Is "spelt" what Germans call "Dinkel"??[/code]
Yup, that's what I understand it to be. We have a european bakery here that label "Dinkel" as "Spelt" too...

SourDom 2006 October 20

TP

the ground malt that I use is home made a la Dan Lepard. Instructions in the handmade loaf, but essentially you sprout some unhulled barley over a couple of days, then dry in a very low oven before grinding to a powder. I do it about once every six months.

I am deliberately making half quantities of bread at the moment, so that I can justify continuing to bake. I am only able to do this much baking because I am at home with the family for a week or two. Hopefully more baguettes this afternoon. (No grissini today)

cheers
Dom

TeckPoh's picture
TeckPoh 2006 October 20

Thanks, Dom. Yes, I have THL and has seen the instructions before. I was always sure that it sounded easier than the actual task. Will give it a go soon as I can find some unhulled barley....good idea to make half a year's supply at one go.

Attempt #3: Today, I followed Jeremy's formula (on pg 5) except I used all plain flour (11.8% protein), and a pinch of instant yeast, because I think I missed my starter's peak by quite a bit. Left it for more than 12 hours. Looks better than the other 2 prior attempts. However, I had exactly the same cracks as Dom's at the bottom.

[img]http://www.sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/4899-1/baguette3.jpg[/img]

Crumb pix in half an hour.

TeckPoh's picture
TeckPoh 2006 October 20

Either I'm very hungry or it's actually not bad at all...can't stop munching. Nice crust. Moist, soft crumb. Tasty.

[img]http://www.sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/4903-2/bagcrumb4.jpg[/img]

Will go for Attempt #4 next week.

Jeremy's picture
Jeremy 2006 October 20

TP!
Nice! Guess I have to catch up, exhausted but will enter the ring again! Nina!
You can do it, how about Maedi?

Ta!
Jeremy

SourDom 2006 October 20

Not much time to write

Dan Lepard's white leaven formula using plain flour

[img]http://www.sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/4904-1/DSCN1523.JPG[/img]

one loaf behaved (but the grignes are almost rictal). the other cracked

[img]http://www.sourdough.com.au/gallery/d/4906-1/DSCN1526.JPG[/img]

crumb pics when I attack bread in the morning

Dom

SourDom 2006 October 20

PS I am not sure which I find more drool-worthy TP - your fantastic baguettes, or your gorgeous photos. great work.

Jeremy's picture
Jeremy 2006 October 20

Dom!
She does have a good eye, and hell her baking makes me lick my screen, when nobody is looking!

Jeremy

Maedi's picture
Maedi 2006 October 20

[quote="Jeremy"]
Hey Maedi!
what about Dad?
[/quote]

Jeremy
Dad and I have decided to make one togethor.

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